I recently came across your substack in an effort to better understand how to read 紅樓夢 and understand it for the full work of literary art it is - I’ve picked up the Yangs translation and just reading it alone, I can feel how much context I’m missing and how many implications are going over my head. All this to say, I deeply appreciate your effort on this project and it’s posts like this one that are exactly what I was looking for - so I can fully appreciate just why 紅樓夢 is considered one of the Four Treasures.
As a 5th gen Chinese American who never got to study much about Chinese culture or history in formal education, I have very little knowledge or understanding of Buddhism and Daoism and how they functioned at the time Cao Xueqin wrote 紅樓夢。 It’s very helpful to have you explain what Buddhist or Daoist influences are at play here and what is being subverted. I’ve been working my way chronologically through your posts and really enjoying everything - I wonder if you have any content that helps provide more context for the relation between Buddhism and Daoism and what roles they played in Chinese society at that time?
Thanks! Welcome to the project. Let me know if you have any deeper questions of if there's anything I can help you with. I'm not an expert on Buddhism or Daoism, but I do know places to look to find answers to some of the issues that come up.
I'll see if I can find more on the roles that Buddhism and Daoism played in Chinese society in general in the late Ming and early Qing dynasties. My guess is that some of the more academic histories (i.e. the Cambridge History of China) is probably the best place to look.
紅樓夢 is incredibly deep, and it becomes more fascinating the more you get into it. I hope that this publication will be of help!
Your project is already a big help in allowing me to appreciate how deep and layered 紅樓夢 is. Reading it alone with none of the cultural or linguistic context makes for a confusing and alienating experience - but the more I read your posts, the more excited I am feeling about connecting to this legendary work. And feeling even more motivated to improve my Mandarin! Thank you for all your hard work!
I actually think that’s a great addition to include in your translation work. It’s really interesting to compare how different translators have their own touches and otherwise, I as a reader looking at only one translation, am at their mercy to take their words at face value. I really appreciated your note that the Yangs translated during the time of the Cultural Revolution and see how that’s informed some of their original additions to the text
The introduction that the Yangs wrote is actually really interesting. It's filled with all sorts of communist language about how Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu were fighting against the bourgeoisie and so on.
I think they had to include it, since their English version was published in Beijing in 1978. But it's still a really odd historical relic...
I recently came across your substack in an effort to better understand how to read 紅樓夢 and understand it for the full work of literary art it is - I’ve picked up the Yangs translation and just reading it alone, I can feel how much context I’m missing and how many implications are going over my head. All this to say, I deeply appreciate your effort on this project and it’s posts like this one that are exactly what I was looking for - so I can fully appreciate just why 紅樓夢 is considered one of the Four Treasures.
As a 5th gen Chinese American who never got to study much about Chinese culture or history in formal education, I have very little knowledge or understanding of Buddhism and Daoism and how they functioned at the time Cao Xueqin wrote 紅樓夢。 It’s very helpful to have you explain what Buddhist or Daoist influences are at play here and what is being subverted. I’ve been working my way chronologically through your posts and really enjoying everything - I wonder if you have any content that helps provide more context for the relation between Buddhism and Daoism and what roles they played in Chinese society at that time?
Thanks! Welcome to the project. Let me know if you have any deeper questions of if there's anything I can help you with. I'm not an expert on Buddhism or Daoism, but I do know places to look to find answers to some of the issues that come up.
I'll see if I can find more on the roles that Buddhism and Daoism played in Chinese society in general in the late Ming and early Qing dynasties. My guess is that some of the more academic histories (i.e. the Cambridge History of China) is probably the best place to look.
紅樓夢 is incredibly deep, and it becomes more fascinating the more you get into it. I hope that this publication will be of help!
Your project is already a big help in allowing me to appreciate how deep and layered 紅樓夢 is. Reading it alone with none of the cultural or linguistic context makes for a confusing and alienating experience - but the more I read your posts, the more excited I am feeling about connecting to this legendary work. And feeling even more motivated to improve my Mandarin! Thank you for all your hard work!
No problem!
I just hope you don’t mind me criticizing David Hawkes and Gladys Yang from time to time, haha.
I actually think that’s a great addition to include in your translation work. It’s really interesting to compare how different translators have their own touches and otherwise, I as a reader looking at only one translation, am at their mercy to take their words at face value. I really appreciated your note that the Yangs translated during the time of the Cultural Revolution and see how that’s informed some of their original additions to the text
Thanks!
The introduction that the Yangs wrote is actually really interesting. It's filled with all sorts of communist language about how Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu were fighting against the bourgeoisie and so on.
I think they had to include it, since their English version was published in Beijing in 1978. But it's still a really odd historical relic...